Wesley on "Predestination"
I have been recently thinking on the issue of Calvinistic predestination and its implications for our understanding of both being and function of both God and man. I respect and love my Calvinist brothers and sisters, and I believe in the goodness of their intentions. However, I believe their theological suppositions to be intrinsically fallacious and destructive.
John Wesley referred to Calvinistic predestination as "blasphemy"! In his sermon number 128, titled Free Grace, Wesley lists four reasons why he believes thus. Below are these four:
John Wesley referred to Calvinistic predestination as "blasphemy"! In his sermon number 128, titled Free Grace, Wesley lists four reasons why he believes thus. Below are these four:
1. This premised, let it be observed, that this doctrine represents our blessed Lord, "Jesus Christ the righteous," "the only begotten Son of the Father, full of grace and truth," as an hypocrite, a deceiver of the people, a man void of common sincerity. For it cannot be denied, that he everywhere speaks as if he was willing that all men should be saved. Therefore, to say he was not willing that all men should be saved, is to represent him as a mere hypocrite and dissembler. It cannot be denied that the gracious words which came out of his mouth are full of invitations to all sinners. To say, then, he did not intend to save all sinners, is to represent him as a gross deceiver of the people. You cannot deny that he says, "Come unto me, all ye that are weary and heavy laden." If, then, you say he calls those that cannot come; those whom he knows to be unable to come; those whom he can make able to come, but will not; how is it possible to describe greater insincerity? You represent him as mocking his helpless creatures, by offering what he never intends to give. You describe him as saying one thing, and meaning another; as pretending the love which his had not. Him, in "whose mouth was no guile," you make full of deceit, void of common sincerity; -- then especially, when, drawing nigh the city, He wept over it, and said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, -- and ye would not;" EthelEsa -- kai ouk EthelEsate. Now, if you say, they would, but he would not, you represent him (which who could hear?) as weeping crocodiles' tears; weeping over the prey which himself had doomed to destruction!I recommend that both Calvinist and Wesleyan alike read this sermon in its entirety. Once again, sermon number 128, titled Free Grace.
2. Such blasphemy this, as one would think might make the ears of a Christian to tingle! But there is yet more behind; for just as it honours the Son, so doth this doctrine honour the Father. It destroys all his attributes at once: It overturns both his justice, mercy, and truth; yea, it represents the most holy God as worse than the devil, as both more false, more cruel, and more unjust. More false; because the devil, liar as he is, hath never said, "He willeth all men to be saved:" More unjust; because the devil cannot, if he would, be guilty of such injustice as you ascribe to God, when you say that God condemned millions of souls to everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, for continuing in sin, which, for want of that grace he will not give them, they cannot avoid: And more cruel; because that unhappy spirit "seeketh rest and findeth none;" so that his own restless misery is a kind of temptation to him to tempt others. But God resteth in his high and holy place; so that to suppose him, of his own mere motion, of his pure will and pleasure, happy as he is, to doom his creatures, whether they will or no, to endless misery, is to impute such cruelty to him as we cannot impute even to the great enemy of God and man. It is to represent the high God (he that hath ears to hear let him hear!) as more cruel, false, and unjust than the devil!
3. This is the blasphemy clearly contained in the horrible decree of predestination! And here I fix my foot. On this I join issue with every assertor of it. You represent God as worse than the devil; more false, more cruel, more unjust. But you say you will prove it by scripture. Hold! What will you prove by Scripture? That God is worse than the devil? It cannot be. Whatever that Scripture proves, it never proved this; whatever its true meaning be. This cannot be its true meaning. Do you ask, "What is its true meaning then?" If I say, " I know not," you have gained nothing; for there are many scriptures the true sense whereof neither you nor I shall know till death is swallowed up in victory. But this I know, better it were to say it had no sense, than to say it had such a sense as this. It cannot mean, whatever it mean besides, that the God of truth is a liar. Let it mean what it will, it cannot mean that the Judge of all the world is unjust. No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works; that is, whatever it prove beside, no scripture can prove predestination.
4. This is the blasphemy for which (however I love the persons who assert it) I abhor the doctrine of predestination, a doctrine, upon the supposition of which, if one could possibly suppose it for a moment, (call it election, reprobation, or what you please, for all comes to the same thing) one might say to our adversary, the devil, "Thou fool, why dost thou roar about any longer? Thy lying in wait for souls is as needless and useless as our preaching. Hearest thou not, that God hath taken thy work out of thy hands; and that he doeth it much more effectually? Thou, with all thy principalities and powers, canst only so assault that we may resist thee; but He can irresistibly destroy both body and soul in hell! Thou canst only entice; but his unchangeable decrees, to leave thousands of souls in death, compels them to continue in sin, till they drop into everlasting burnings. Thou temptest; He forceth us to be damned; for we cannot resist his will. Thou fool, why goest thou about any longer, seeking whom thou mayest devour? Hearest thou not that God is the devouring lion, the destroyer of souls, the murderer of men? Moloch caused only children to pass though the fire: and that fire was soon quenched; or, the corruptible body being consumed, its torment was at an end; but God, thou are told, by his eternal decree, fixed before they had done good or evil, causes, not only children of a span long, but the parents also, to pass through the fire of hell, the 'fire which never shall be quenched; and the body which is cast thereinto, being now incorruptible and immortal, will be ever consuming and never consumed, but 'the smoke of their torment,' because it is God's good pleasure, 'ascendeth up for ever and ever.' "
O how would the enemy of God and man rejoice to hear these things were so! How would he cry aloud and spare not! How would he lift up his voice and say, "To your tents, O Israel! Flee from the face of this God, or ye shall utterly perish! But whither will ye flee? Into heaven? He is there, Down to hell? He is there also. Ye cannot flee from an omnipresent, almighty tyrant. And whether ye flee or stay, I call heaven, his throne, and earth, his footstool, to witness against you, ye shall perish, ye shall die eternally. Sing, O hell, and rejoice, ye that are under the earth! For God, even the mighty God, hath spoken, and devoted to death thousands of souls, from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof! Here, O death, is they sting! They shall not, cannot escape; for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. Here, O grave is thy victory. Nations yet unborn, or ever they have done good or evil are doomed never to see the light of life, but thou shalt gnaw upon them for ever and ever! Let all those morning stars sing together, who fell with Lucifer, son of the morning! Let all the sons of hell shout for joy! For the decree is past, and who shall disannul it?"
Labels: theology

11 Comments:
Sean,
Stop me if you have heard this one...
There was a Calvinist and a Methodist pastor at a Bible confrence. While walking from one building to the next for a seminar, the Calvinist fell down a flight of stairs.
The Methodist pastor ran down the steps and helped the Calvinist up to his feet. He was a little shaken up, bruised, but no apparent injuries.
The Methodist asked, "Are you okay."
The Calvinist replied, "Yes, I'm fine, thank you."
The Methodist said, "I'll bet you are glad to get that one out of the way though, aren't you."
I would think that when we take cheap shots against other theological positions that we fail to do justice to our own position. Thus, I could say that the person that posted the joke about the Calvinist choose to do so out of free will, but this then would say that he choose to make make fun, ridicule and be little the Calvinist position. I do not think that John Wesley would have stooped so low as to make fun, but would have stuck to the main points of why theologically the Calvinist's position leaves gaps in order for man to continue to sin. Thus, the one that posted the joke could be considered the Pharisee of the Wesleyan position.
I would think that when we take cheap shots against other theological positions that we fail to do justice to our own position. Thus, I could say that the person that posted the joke about the Calvinist choose to do so out of free will, but this then would say that he choose to make make fun, ridicule and be little the Calvinist position. I do not think that John Wesley would have stooped so low as to make fun, but would have stuck to the main points of why theologically the Calvinist's position leaves gaps in order for man to continue to sin. Thus, the one that posted the joke could be considered the Pharisee of the Wesleyan position.
I would think that when we take cheap shots against other theological positions that we fail to do justice to our own position. Thus, I could say that the person that posted the joke about the Calvinist choose to do so out of free will, but this then would say that he choose to make make fun, ridicule and be little the Calvinist position. I do not think that John Wesley would have stooped so low as to make fun, but would have stuck to the main points of why theologically the Calvinist's position leaves gaps in order for man to continue to sin. Thus, the one that posted the joke could be considered the Pharisee of the Wesleyan position.
Monk,
I believe in the three in one...but posting the same post three times is a little out of hand. Is there a link on blogging etiquette or instructional information that this "Monk" can follow?
monk,
we got your point the first time.
Hey Monk,
Have you heard the one about the Priest, the Preacher, and the Rabbi?
Oh, wait, you don't like jokes. I guess Methodists don't laugh....
it's not methodists...it's just monk!
Sorry I posted three times, but I thought you guys were trinitarian.
There is a difference between trinitarianism and trithianism.
Thanks for all those who posted comments here. I was hoping for something more serious, but oh well.
This ends this topic.
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